[DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

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[DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

Dave Fisher
Hi -

In discussions on the Board and Private list about the proposal voted on a few weeks ago to fork FlexJS it was pointed out that it would good to discuss if a new name should be attached to the forked project.

There are one or two propositions to discuss.

(1) FlexJS - is this distinct enough and will the historical connection to Adobe/Apache Flex and Flash help or hinder the forked project’s future?

Please provide arguments in any direction.

(2) If a change is the outcome then we need to discuss and accumulate reasonable names. Determine what is suitable by checking for other uses of these names. If there are multiple choices available then we should vote.

A discussion of possible names can go in parallel to the discussion about keeping FlexJS.

This discussion needs to proceed quickly if we want to have an open process in advance of the next ASF Board meeting.

Regards,
Dave

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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

piotrz
Hi Dave,

I believe that FlexJS is the right name. We have gained some recognition
and visibility among people and companies. I don't believe that we are
really at the beginning anymore.

Our main first customers are companies who would like to rewrite their apps
from Flex, so this connection is something really good.
If majority which response to this thread would like to change the name I
will not fight. Keep in mind that we really would like to have the project
split - I believe that is the most important to us.

Thanks,
Piotr

2017-09-12 3:01 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher <[hidden email]>:

> Hi -
>
> In discussions on the Board and Private list about the proposal voted on a
> few weeks ago to fork FlexJS it was pointed out that it would good to
> discuss if a new name should be attached to the forked project.
>
> There are one or two propositions to discuss.
>
> (1) FlexJS - is this distinct enough and will the historical connection to
> Adobe/Apache Flex and Flash help or hinder the forked project’s future?
>
> Please provide arguments in any direction.
>
> (2) If a change is the outcome then we need to discuss and accumulate
> reasonable names. Determine what is suitable by checking for other uses of
> these names. If there are multiple choices available then we should vote.
>
> A discussion of possible names can go in parallel to the discussion about
> keeping FlexJS.
>
> This discussion needs to proceed quickly if we want to have an open
> process in advance of the next ASF Board meeting.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>



--

Piotr Zarzycki

mobile: +48 880 859 557 <+48%20880%20859%20557>
skype: zarzycki10

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
<https://pl.linkedin.com/in/piotr-zarzycki-92a53552>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

Alex Harui-2
I would like some thoughts on a related question, but first some context:

IMO, it would help to continue to develop and ship a product called Apache
FlexJS right now to draw in migrating Flex folks.  And maybe some day,
we'll ship a product that is more targeted to folks writing new JS apps
and maybe even target runtimes other than JS, and that might have a name
that doesn't have Flex in it.  So, the _project_ could be called something
else, but it seems odd for there to be an Apache Flex project and an
Apache XX project that ships an Apache FlexJS product.

So my question is: How impactful the project name is compared to the
product name?  I'm not sure I can recite the project/manufacturer names
behind many products but most are the same at Apache.

So, if someone thinks of a great project name that can encompass these
possibilities in our future and Apache authorities won't object to using
FlexJS for a product in a project with a different name, I would be in
favor of the new name, but if project names aren't as impactful as product
names, I'd just lean towards sticking with FlexJS as the project name for
now just so we can get the proposal decided on in the September 20 board
meeting and not have to wait more.

Thoughts?
-Alex

On 9/11/17, 9:35 PM, "Piotr Zarzycki" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Hi Dave,
>
>I believe that FlexJS is the right name. We have gained some recognition
>and visibility among people and companies. I don't believe that we are
>really at the beginning anymore.
>
>Our main first customers are companies who would like to rewrite their
>apps
>from Flex, so this connection is something really good.
>If majority which response to this thread would like to change the name I
>will not fight. Keep in mind that we really would like to have the project
>split - I believe that is the most important to us.
>
>Thanks,
>Piotr
>
>2017-09-12 3:01 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher <[hidden email]>:
>
>> Hi -
>>
>> In discussions on the Board and Private list about the proposal voted
>>on a
>> few weeks ago to fork FlexJS it was pointed out that it would good to
>> discuss if a new name should be attached to the forked project.
>>
>> There are one or two propositions to discuss.
>>
>> (1) FlexJS - is this distinct enough and will the historical connection
>>to
>> Adobe/Apache Flex and Flash help or hinder the forked project’s future?
>>
>> Please provide arguments in any direction.
>>
>> (2) If a change is the outcome then we need to discuss and accumulate
>> reasonable names. Determine what is suitable by checking for other uses
>>of
>> these names. If there are multiple choices available then we should
>>vote.
>>
>> A discussion of possible names can go in parallel to the discussion
>>about
>> keeping FlexJS.
>>
>> This discussion needs to proceed quickly if we want to have an open
>> process in advance of the next ASF Board meeting.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>
>
>
>
>--
>
>Piotr Zarzycki
>
>mobile: +48 880 859 557 <+48%20880%20859%20557>
>skype: zarzycki10
>
>LinkedIn:
>https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linked
>in.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9e4bacb6b08a4923de8108d4f997b9a7%
>7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636407877434499520&sdata=Nhht
>Kaf9RlzE9cCdJ3WErVGfHVFXsdQX%2BK48hw0Der8%3D&reserved=0
><https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpl.linke
>din.com%2Fin%2Fpiotr-zarzycki-92a53552&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9e4bacb6b08a4923d
>e8108d4f997b9a7%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C6364078774344
>99520&sdata=el1sClOn82J2rnnm4N01Te8Z5bPylMriHy%2Fdp0%2Budd0%3D&reserved=0>

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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

OmPrakash Muppirala
I prefer a name change away from FlexJS.

I would like to concentrate more on getting new developers to the fold as
opposed concentrating on existing Flex developers.

The term FlexXX has a dated feel to it.  Maybe a new name will get folks to
check it out at which point they will feel like sticking to it.

Thanks,
Om

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 11:20 PM, Alex Harui <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I would like some thoughts on a related question, but first some context:
>
> IMO, it would help to continue to develop and ship a product called Apache
> FlexJS right now to draw in migrating Flex folks.  And maybe some day,
> we'll ship a product that is more targeted to folks writing new JS apps
> and maybe even target runtimes other than JS, and that might have a name
> that doesn't have Flex in it.  So, the _project_ could be called something
> else, but it seems odd for there to be an Apache Flex project and an
> Apache XX project that ships an Apache FlexJS product.
>
> So my question is: How impactful the project name is compared to the
> product name?  I'm not sure I can recite the project/manufacturer names
> behind many products but most are the same at Apache.
>
> So, if someone thinks of a great project name that can encompass these
> possibilities in our future and Apache authorities won't object to using
> FlexJS for a product in a project with a different name, I would be in
> favor of the new name, but if project names aren't as impactful as product
> names, I'd just lean towards sticking with FlexJS as the project name for
> now just so we can get the proposal decided on in the September 20 board
> meeting and not have to wait more.
>
> Thoughts?
> -Alex
>
> On 9/11/17, 9:35 PM, "Piotr Zarzycki" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> >Hi Dave,
> >
> >I believe that FlexJS is the right name. We have gained some recognition
> >and visibility among people and companies. I don't believe that we are
> >really at the beginning anymore.
> >
> >Our main first customers are companies who would like to rewrite their
> >apps
> >from Flex, so this connection is something really good.
> >If majority which response to this thread would like to change the name I
> >will not fight. Keep in mind that we really would like to have the project
> >split - I believe that is the most important to us.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Piotr
> >
> >2017-09-12 3:01 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher <[hidden email]>:
> >
> >> Hi -
> >>
> >> In discussions on the Board and Private list about the proposal voted
> >>on a
> >> few weeks ago to fork FlexJS it was pointed out that it would good to
> >> discuss if a new name should be attached to the forked project.
> >>
> >> There are one or two propositions to discuss.
> >>
> >> (1) FlexJS - is this distinct enough and will the historical connection
> >>to
> >> Adobe/Apache Flex and Flash help or hinder the forked project’s future?
> >>
> >> Please provide arguments in any direction.
> >>
> >> (2) If a change is the outcome then we need to discuss and accumulate
> >> reasonable names. Determine what is suitable by checking for other uses
> >>of
> >> these names. If there are multiple choices available then we should
> >>vote.
> >>
> >> A discussion of possible names can go in parallel to the discussion
> >>about
> >> keeping FlexJS.
> >>
> >> This discussion needs to proceed quickly if we want to have an open
> >> process in advance of the next ASF Board meeting.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Dave
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >
> >Piotr Zarzycki
> >
> >mobile: +48 880 859 557 <+48%20880%20859%20557>
> >skype: zarzycki10
> >
> >LinkedIn:
> >https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linked
> >in.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9e4bacb6b08a4923de8108d4f997
> b9a7%
> >7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636407877434499520&sdata=
> Nhht
> >Kaf9RlzE9cCdJ3WErVGfHVFXsdQX%2BK48hw0Der8%3D&reserved=0
> ><https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Fpl.linke
> >din.com%2Fin%2Fpiotr-zarzycki-92a53552&data=02%
> 7C01%7C%7C9e4bacb6b08a4923d
> >e8108d4f997b9a7%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de
> cee1%7C0%7C0%7C6364078774344
> >99520&sdata=el1sClOn82J2rnnm4N01Te8Z5bPylMriHy%2Fdp0%2Budd0%3D&reserved=
> 0>
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

Olaf Krueger
In reply to this post by Dave Fisher
I would stick with the name "FlexJS" for now.
I do not think that people associate negative vibes with it.
So many other JS frameworks are born every day, I think a new name may
confuse people.

But I agree that in future it could make sense to rename it, especially if
there will be other targets than JS one day... who knows...

Thanks,
Olaf






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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

Erik de Bruin
For an Apache project, I think FlexJS would be the best name.

EdB



On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 10:45 AM, Olaf Krueger <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I would stick with the name "FlexJS" for now.
> I do not think that people associate negative vibes with it.
> So many other JS frameworks are born every day, I think a new name may
> confuse people.
>
> But I agree that in future it could make sense to rename it, especially if
> there will be other targets than JS one day... who knows...
>
> Thanks,
> Olaf
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://apache-flex-development.2333347.n4.nabble.com/
>



--
Ix Multimedia Software

Jan Luykenstraat 27
3521 VB Utrecht

T. 06-51952295
I. www.ixsoftware.nl
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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

Harbs
In reply to this post by Dave Fisher
I personally do not see a need for a new name.

To me it’s more about branding the name. If FlexJS has its own identity and Flash is barely mentioned I don’t think it’s dragging along the Flash associations. For those familiar with Flex and wanting to migrate to JS, the FlexJS name is a positive thing.

Harbs

> On Sep 12, 2017, at 4:01 AM, Dave Fisher <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi -
>
> In discussions on the Board and Private list about the proposal voted on a few weeks ago to fork FlexJS it was pointed out that it would good to discuss if a new name should be attached to the forked project.
>
> There are one or two propositions to discuss.
>
> (1) FlexJS - is this distinct enough and will the historical connection to Adobe/Apache Flex and Flash help or hinder the forked project’s future?
>
> Please provide arguments in any direction.
>
> (2) If a change is the outcome then we need to discuss and accumulate reasonable names. Determine what is suitable by checking for other uses of these names. If there are multiple choices available then we should vote.
>
> A discussion of possible names can go in parallel to the discussion about keeping FlexJS.
>
> This discussion needs to proceed quickly if we want to have an open process in advance of the next ASF Board meeting.
>
> Regards,
> Dave

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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

Carlos Rovira
Hi, just see this now, but I responded in the other thread. copying
response:

Regarding name, I would prefer a name change since the suffix "JS" is not
reflecting the real potential of this project. If we want to output JS
exclusively, I think it would be ok.

In the other hand, "Flex" name has very bad press in IT and companies. If
you put the word "Flex", you can have many problems with your work and
credibility with the people you talk.

In the other hand, we should look at our competitors : Angular, React, Vue,
Dart,... it's all marketing: the name, the website, if we don't play well
our cards, don't expect to have a widely used technology

In the other hand I can live with old "FlexJS" name, if people does not
want a change, but these means to me that FlexJS will hardly get considered
in the mainstream.

Just my 2

thanks

Carlos



2017-09-12 10:58 GMT+02:00 Harbs <[hidden email]>:

> I personally do not see a need for a new name.
>
> To me it’s more about branding the name. If FlexJS has its own identity
> and Flash is barely mentioned I don’t think it’s dragging along the Flash
> associations. For those familiar with Flex and wanting to migrate to JS,
> the FlexJS name is a positive thing.
>
> Harbs
>
> > On Sep 12, 2017, at 4:01 AM, Dave Fisher <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi -
> >
> > In discussions on the Board and Private list about the proposal voted on
> a few weeks ago to fork FlexJS it was pointed out that it would good to
> discuss if a new name should be attached to the forked project.
> >
> > There are one or two propositions to discuss.
> >
> > (1) FlexJS - is this distinct enough and will the historical connection
> to Adobe/Apache Flex and Flash help or hinder the forked project’s future?
> >
> > Please provide arguments in any direction.
> >
> > (2) If a change is the outcome then we need to discuss and accumulate
> reasonable names. Determine what is suitable by checking for other uses of
> these names. If there are multiple choices available then we should vote.
> >
> > A discussion of possible names can go in parallel to the discussion
> about keeping FlexJS.
> >
> > This discussion needs to proceed quickly if we want to have an open
> process in advance of the next ASF Board meeting.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Dave
>
>


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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

Dave Fisher
In reply to this post by Alex Harui-2
Hi -

I specifically asked Shane about when a trademark becomes an Apache mark. The answer can be summarized as once it is used. For a project that is when it approved and the website goes up. For a product it is when it is released. The TM ought be used to make it clear, but it can be implicit. It is important to do the Suitable Name Search to make sure that it looks like use of a name would not infringe on someone else’s mark.

> On Sep 11, 2017, at 11:20 PM, Alex Harui <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I would like some thoughts on a related question, but first some context:
>
> IMO, it would help to continue to develop and ship a product called Apache
> FlexJS right now to draw in migrating Flex folks.  And maybe some day,
> we'll ship a product that is more targeted to folks writing new JS apps
> and maybe even target runtimes other than JS, and that might have a name
> that doesn't have Flex in it.  So, the _project_ could be called something
> else, but it seems odd for there to be an Apache Flex project and an
> Apache XX project that ships an Apache FlexJS product.
Assuming Flex will allow XX to do so yes.

>
> So my question is: How impactful the project name is compared to the
> product name?  I'm not sure I can recite the project/manufacturer names
> behind many products but most are the same at Apache.

Around Lucene which came out of Nutch:
Apache Lucene is a project and product. Apache Solr is a product of Apache Lucene.
Apache Lucene.Net is a project and product.
Apache Lucy is a project and product.

>
> So, if someone thinks of a great project name that can encompass these
> possibilities in our future and Apache authorities won't object to using
> FlexJS for a product in a project with a different name, I would be in
> favor of the new name, but if project names aren't as impactful as product
> names, I'd just lean towards sticking with FlexJS as the project name for
> now just so we can get the proposal decided on in the September 20 board
> meeting and not have to wait more.

If we think a new name is appropriate then now is the time that’s why we should move ahead.

Regards,
Dave

>
> Thoughts?
> -Alex
>
> On 9/11/17, 9:35 PM, "Piotr Zarzycki" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> I believe that FlexJS is the right name. We have gained some recognition
>> and visibility among people and companies. I don't believe that we are
>> really at the beginning anymore.
>>
>> Our main first customers are companies who would like to rewrite their
>> apps
>> from Flex, so this connection is something really good.
>> If majority which response to this thread would like to change the name I
>> will not fight. Keep in mind that we really would like to have the project
>> split - I believe that is the most important to us.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Piotr
>>
>> 2017-09-12 3:01 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>> Hi -
>>>
>>> In discussions on the Board and Private list about the proposal voted
>>> on a
>>> few weeks ago to fork FlexJS it was pointed out that it would good to
>>> discuss if a new name should be attached to the forked project.
>>>
>>> There are one or two propositions to discuss.
>>>
>>> (1) FlexJS - is this distinct enough and will the historical connection
>>> to
>>> Adobe/Apache Flex and Flash help or hinder the forked project’s future?
>>>
>>> Please provide arguments in any direction.
>>>
>>> (2) If a change is the outcome then we need to discuss and accumulate
>>> reasonable names. Determine what is suitable by checking for other uses
>>> of
>>> these names. If there are multiple choices available then we should
>>> vote.
>>>
>>> A discussion of possible names can go in parallel to the discussion
>>> about
>>> keeping FlexJS.
>>>
>>> This discussion needs to proceed quickly if we want to have an open
>>> process in advance of the next ASF Board meeting.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dave
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Piotr Zarzycki
>>
>> mobile: +48 880 859 557 <+48%20880%20859%20557>
>> skype: zarzycki10
>>
>> LinkedIn:
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linked
>> in.com%2Fpiotrzarzycki&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9e4bacb6b08a4923de8108d4f997b9a7%
>> 7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636407877434499520&sdata=Nhht
>> Kaf9RlzE9cCdJ3WErVGfHVFXsdQX%2BK48hw0Der8%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpl.linke
>> din.com%2Fin%2Fpiotr-zarzycki-92a53552&data=02%7C01%7C%7C9e4bacb6b08a4923d
>> e8108d4f997b9a7%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C6364078774344
>> 99520&sdata=el1sClOn82J2rnnm4N01Te8Z5bPylMriHy%2Fdp0%2Budd0%3D&reserved=0>
>


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RE: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

chrsmrtn
Hey team,

I feel that FlexJS is the right name for the same reasons mentioned by other team members thus far.

Key one is that we’ve got the next 3 years to capitalize on the “Flex” name for users to see a possible migration path. I feel that keeping this name will make it easier for Developers who are being asked to migrate an Apache Flex web app to find our project.

Chris

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: Dave Fisher<mailto:[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 8:03 AM
To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

Hi -

I specifically asked Shane about when a trademark becomes an Apache mark. The answer can be summarized as once it is used. For a project that is when it approved and the website goes up. For a product it is when it is released. The TM ought be used to make it clear, but it can be implicit. It is important to do the Suitable Name Search to make sure that it looks like use of a name would not infringe on someone else’s mark.

> On Sep 11, 2017, at 11:20 PM, Alex Harui <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I would like some thoughts on a related question, but first some context:
>
> IMO, it would help to continue to develop and ship a product called Apache
> FlexJS right now to draw in migrating Flex folks.  And maybe some day,
> we'll ship a product that is more targeted to folks writing new JS apps
> and maybe even target runtimes other than JS, and that might have a name
> that doesn't have Flex in it.  So, the _project_ could be called something
> else, but it seems odd for there to be an Apache Flex project and an
> Apache XX project that ships an Apache FlexJS product.

Assuming Flex will allow XX to do so yes.

>
> So my question is: How impactful the project name is compared to the
> product name?  I'm not sure I can recite the project/manufacturer names
> behind many products but most are the same at Apache.

Around Lucene which came out of Nutch:
Apache Lucene is a project and product. Apache Solr is a product of Apache Lucene.
Apache Lucene.Net is a project and product.
Apache Lucy is a project and product.

>
> So, if someone thinks of a great project name that can encompass these
> possibilities in our future and Apache authorities won't object to using
> FlexJS for a product in a project with a different name, I would be in
> favor of the new name, but if project names aren't as impactful as product
> names, I'd just lean towards sticking with FlexJS as the project name for
> now just so we can get the proposal decided on in the September 20 board
> meeting and not have to wait more.

If we think a new name is appropriate then now is the time that’s why we should move ahead.

Regards,
Dave

>
> Thoughts?
> -Alex
>
> On 9/11/17, 9:35 PM, "Piotr Zarzycki" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> I believe that FlexJS is the right name. We have gained some recognition
>> and visibility among people and companies. I don't believe that we are
>> really at the beginning anymore.
>>
>> Our main first customers are companies who would like to rewrite their
>> apps
>> from Flex, so this connection is something really good.
>> If majority which response to this thread would like to change the name I
>> will not fight. Keep in mind that we really would like to have the project
>> split - I believe that is the most important to us.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Piotr
>>
>> 2017-09-12 3:01 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>> Hi -
>>>
>>> In discussions on the Board and Private list about the proposal voted
>>> on a
>>> few weeks ago to fork FlexJS it was pointed out that it would good to
>>> discuss if a new name should be attached to the forked project.
>>>
>>> There are one or two propositions to discuss.
>>>
>>> (1) FlexJS - is this distinct enough and will the historical connection
>>> to
>>> Adobe/Apache Flex and Flash help or hinder the forked project’s future?
>>>
>>> Please provide arguments in any direction.
>>>
>>> (2) If a change is the outcome then we need to discuss and accumulate
>>> reasonable names. Determine what is suitable by checking for other uses
>>> of
>>> these names. If there are multiple choices available then we should
>>> vote.
>>>
>>> A discussion of possible names can go in parallel to the discussion
>>> about
>>> keeping FlexJS.
>>>
>>> This discussion needs to proceed quickly if we want to have an open
>>> process in advance of the next ASF Board meeting.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dave
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Piotr Zarzycki
>>
>> mobile: +48 880 859 557 <+48%20880%20859%20557>
>> skype: zarzycki10
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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

Dave Fisher
In reply to this post by Carlos Rovira
Hi Carlos.

> On Sep 12, 2017, at 5:39 AM, Carlos Rovira <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi, just see this now, but I responded in the other thread. copying
> response:
>
> Regarding name, I would prefer a name change since the suffix "JS" is not
> reflecting the real potential of this project. If we want to output JS
> exclusively, I think it would be ok.
>
> In the other hand, "Flex" name has very bad press in IT and companies. If
> you put the word "Flex", you can have many problems with your work and
> credibility with the people you talk.
Do you have examples of Apache Flex or FlexJS getting bad press? It would make your argument more persuasive.

>
> In the other hand, we should look at our competitors : Angular, React, Vue,
> Dart,... it's all marketing: the name, the website, if we don't play well
> our cards, don't expect to have a widely used technology

You mean like Beads, Bend or Strands?

>
> In the other hand I can live with old "FlexJS" name, if people does not
> want a change, but these means to me that FlexJS will hardly get considered
> in the mainstream.
>
> Just my 2

More than that ;-)

Regards,
Dave

>
> thanks
>
> Carlos
>
>
>
> 2017-09-12 10:58 GMT+02:00 Harbs <[hidden email]>:
>
>> I personally do not see a need for a new name.
>>
>> To me it’s more about branding the name. If FlexJS has its own identity
>> and Flash is barely mentioned I don’t think it’s dragging along the Flash
>> associations. For those familiar with Flex and wanting to migrate to JS,
>> the FlexJS name is a positive thing.
>>
>> Harbs
>>
>>> On Sep 12, 2017, at 4:01 AM, Dave Fisher <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi -
>>>
>>> In discussions on the Board and Private list about the proposal voted on
>> a few weeks ago to fork FlexJS it was pointed out that it would good to
>> discuss if a new name should be attached to the forked project.
>>>
>>> There are one or two propositions to discuss.
>>>
>>> (1) FlexJS - is this distinct enough and will the historical connection
>> to Adobe/Apache Flex and Flash help or hinder the forked project’s future?
>>>
>>> Please provide arguments in any direction.
>>>
>>> (2) If a change is the outcome then we need to discuss and accumulate
>> reasonable names. Determine what is suitable by checking for other uses of
>> these names. If there are multiple choices available then we should vote.
>>>
>>> A discussion of possible names can go in parallel to the discussion
>> about keeping FlexJS.
>>>
>>> This discussion needs to proceed quickly if we want to have an open
>> process in advance of the next ASF Board meeting.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dave
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> <http://www.codeoscopic.com>
>
> Carlos Rovira
>
> Director General
>
> M: +34 607 22 60 05
>
> http://www.codeoscopic.com
>
> http://www.avant2.es
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

Carlos Rovira-3
Hi Dave,

2017-09-12 21:12 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher <[hidden email]>:

>
>
> Do you have examples of Apache Flex or FlexJS getting bad press? It would
> make your argument more persuasive.
>
>
There's nothing published. I'm talking about customer meetings where you
expose that you can use "Flex" and your potential customer looks to you
with poker face since "Flex" is now considered an old technology from 2008.
The fact is almost all Flex developers had to switch to HTML and there's
almost no projects in Flex done today.



> >
> > In the other hand, we should look at our competitors : Angular, React,
> Vue,
> > Dart,... it's all marketing: the name, the website, if we don't play well
> > our cards, don't expect to have a widely used technology
>
> You mean like Beads, Bend or Strands?
>

Yes, I proposed in other thread ROYALE or CROWN as good candidates for its
various implications in the strand/beads concept (crown with jewels as an
icon) and for the old relationship with the first flex codename at
macromedia (that was in fact Royale)

I'll be more happy to go with a name, icon, website done that would express
our ideas in a modern, clean and beautiful way.


> >
> > In the other hand I can live with old "FlexJS" name, if people does not
> > want a change, but these means to me that FlexJS will hardly get
> considered
> > in the mainstream.
> >
> > Just my 2
>
> More than that ;-)
>

Thanks

Carlos


>
>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

Harbs
To me the question is how will people react if you tell them you’re doing it in FlexJS vs. FooJS. I think in either case you will get a response of “what’s that”.

What’s going to get a better explanation? “I’m doing it in a relatively unknown framework but one I like.” Or “I’m doing it in a new framework built from the ground up optimized for Javascript built on the concepts which made Flex successful in its time.”

To me, the latter response sounds more compelling.

Hopefully FlexJS will get enough traction that it will become known for its own strengths and this point will become moot.

Harbs

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 11:29 AM, Carlos Rovira <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> 2017-09-12 21:12 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher <[hidden email]>:
>
>>
>>
>> Do you have examples of Apache Flex or FlexJS getting bad press? It would
>> make your argument more persuasive.
>>
>>
> There's nothing published. I'm talking about customer meetings where you
> expose that you can use "Flex" and your potential customer looks to you
> with poker face since "Flex" is now considered an old technology from 2008.
> The fact is almost all Flex developers had to switch to HTML and there's
> almost no projects in Flex done today.
>
>
>
>>>
>>> In the other hand, we should look at our competitors : Angular, React,
>> Vue,
>>> Dart,... it's all marketing: the name, the website, if we don't play well
>>> our cards, don't expect to have a widely used technology
>>
>> You mean like Beads, Bend or Strands?
>>
>
> Yes, I proposed in other thread ROYALE or CROWN as good candidates for its
> various implications in the strand/beads concept (crown with jewels as an
> icon) and for the old relationship with the first flex codename at
> macromedia (that was in fact Royale)
>
> I'll be more happy to go with a name, icon, website done that would express
> our ideas in a modern, clean and beautiful way.
>
>
>>>
>>> In the other hand I can live with old "FlexJS" name, if people does not
>>> want a change, but these means to me that FlexJS will hardly get
>> considered
>>> in the mainstream.
>>>
>>> Just my 2
>>
>> More than that ;-)
>>
>
> Thanks
>
> Carlos
>
>
>>
>>

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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

piotrz
I got several questions like Harbs mention and people instantly know what
is going on when I said them that is the new framework right after Flex.

Piotr

2017-09-13 10:53 GMT+02:00 Harbs <[hidden email]>:

> To me the question is how will people react if you tell them you’re doing
> it in FlexJS vs. FooJS. I think in either case you will get a response of
> “what’s that”.
>
> What’s going to get a better explanation? “I’m doing it in a relatively
> unknown framework but one I like.” Or “I’m doing it in a new framework
> built from the ground up optimized for Javascript built on the concepts
> which made Flex successful in its time.”
>
> To me, the latter response sounds more compelling.
>
> Hopefully FlexJS will get enough traction that it will become known for
> its own strengths and this point will become moot.
>
> Harbs
>
> > On Sep 13, 2017, at 11:29 AM, Carlos Rovira <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Dave,
> >
> > 2017-09-12 21:12 GMT+02:00 Dave Fisher <[hidden email]>:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Do you have examples of Apache Flex or FlexJS getting bad press? It
> would
> >> make your argument more persuasive.
> >>
> >>
> > There's nothing published. I'm talking about customer meetings where you
> > expose that you can use "Flex" and your potential customer looks to you
> > with poker face since "Flex" is now considered an old technology from
> 2008.
> > The fact is almost all Flex developers had to switch to HTML and there's
> > almost no projects in Flex done today.
> >
> >
> >
> >>>
> >>> In the other hand, we should look at our competitors : Angular, React,
> >> Vue,
> >>> Dart,... it's all marketing: the name, the website, if we don't play
> well
> >>> our cards, don't expect to have a widely used technology
> >>
> >> You mean like Beads, Bend or Strands?
> >>
> >
> > Yes, I proposed in other thread ROYALE or CROWN as good candidates for
> its
> > various implications in the strand/beads concept (crown with jewels as an
> > icon) and for the old relationship with the first flex codename at
> > macromedia (that was in fact Royale)
> >
> > I'll be more happy to go with a name, icon, website done that would
> express
> > our ideas in a modern, clean and beautiful way.
> >
> >
> >>>
> >>> In the other hand I can live with old "FlexJS" name, if people does not
> >>> want a change, but these means to me that FlexJS will hardly get
> >> considered
> >>> in the mainstream.
> >>>
> >>> Just my 2
> >>
> >> More than that ;-)
> >>
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Carlos
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
>
>


--

Piotr Zarzycki

mobile: +48 880 859 557
skype: zarzycki10

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
<https://pl.linkedin.com/in/piotr-zarzycki-92a53552>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

Kessler CTR Mark J
In reply to this post by Dave Fisher
One thing we need to do is stick with whatever name we come up with.  There is a lot of time and money involved in renaming stuff.  Not only internally for our own repo's, sites, JIRA, wikies... but also for things like the IDE makes or people building 3rd libraries from it.

-Mark K
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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

piotrz
Agreed with Mark completely! Especially in case of IDEs.

I will summarize discussion tomorrow for the notice to the board that we
have consensus or not.

If there will not be more voices for change than for staying with current
one do we still need start a Vote - Something like: Change name or not ?
Dave what do you think about that ?

Thanks,
Piotr


2017-09-13 12:01 GMT+02:00 Kessler CTR Mark J <[hidden email]>:

> One thing we need to do is stick with whatever name we come up with.
> There is a lot of time and money involved in renaming stuff.  Not only
> internally for our own repo's, sites, JIRA, wikies... but also for things
> like the IDE makes or people building 3rd libraries from it.
>
> -Mark K
>



--

Piotr Zarzycki

mobile: +48 880 859 557
skype: zarzycki10

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
<https://pl.linkedin.com/in/piotr-zarzycki-92a53552>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

Kessler CTR Mark J
In reply to this post by Dave Fisher
Probably could vote on the name change.  But if that passes, it would need a discussion thread for the new name.


-Mark K


-----Original Message-----
From: Piotr Zarzycki [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 6:06 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

Agreed with Mark completely! Especially in case of IDEs.

I will summarize discussion tomorrow for the notice to the board that we
have consensus or not.

If there will not be more voices for change than for staying with current
one do we still need start a Vote - Something like: Change name or not ?
Dave what do you think about that ?

Thanks,
Piotr

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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

Harbs
I’m fine with voting now. I think the reasons for and against have more or less been addressed. The only point which has not really been addressed was Alex’s question.

Personally I don’t think the project name is really a concern as far as some unknown direction the project might take. If it develops to a point where the JS suffix is a problem, we can try and figure out the answer to that question at that time.

Thanks,
Harbs

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:20 PM, Kessler CTR Mark J <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Probably could vote on the name change.  But if that passes, it would need a discussion thread for the new name.
>
>
> -Mark K
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Piotr Zarzycki [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 6:06 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork
>
> Agreed with Mark completely! Especially in case of IDEs.
>
> I will summarize discussion tomorrow for the notice to the board that we
> have consensus or not.
>
> If there will not be more voices for change than for staying with current
> one do we still need start a Vote - Something like: Change name or not ?
> Dave what do you think about that ?
>
> Thanks,
> Piotr
>

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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

piotrz
I thought that name things was one of the concerns in the thread from
board. Maybe including link with the vote where we decide whether we would
like to change the name or not can be helpful to start talk about the
proposal.

If no one oppose I could start soon with [VOTE] Should we change name of
forked project?

If someone would be +1 should propose some names.

Later we could start VOTE thread with all names proposition - in order to
vote on specific one.

Thoughts ?

Thanks,
Piotr



2017-09-13 12:30 GMT+02:00 Harbs <[hidden email]>:

> I’m fine with voting now. I think the reasons for and against have more or
> less been addressed. The only point which has not really been addressed was
> Alex’s question.
>
> Personally I don’t think the project name is really a concern as far as
> some unknown direction the project might take. If it develops to a point
> where the JS suffix is a problem, we can try and figure out the answer to
> that question at that time.
>
> Thanks,
> Harbs
>
> > On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:20 PM, Kessler CTR Mark J <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Probably could vote on the name change.  But if that passes, it would
> need a discussion thread for the new name.
> >
> >
> > -Mark K
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Piotr Zarzycki [mailto:[hidden email]]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 6:06 AM
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork
> >
> > Agreed with Mark completely! Especially in case of IDEs.
> >
> > I will summarize discussion tomorrow for the notice to the board that we
> > have consensus or not.
> >
> > If there will not be more voices for change than for staying with current
> > one do we still need start a Vote - Something like: Change name or not ?
> > Dave what do you think about that ?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Piotr
> >
>
>


--

Piotr Zarzycki

mobile: +48 880 859 557
skype: zarzycki10

LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/piotrzarzycki
<https://pl.linkedin.com/in/piotr-zarzycki-92a53552>
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Re: [DISCUSS] Name of the FlexJS Fork

Harbs
Yes. If we might change the name after forming the new PMC, it’s a concern. Alex’s question is more about the framework developing into something else in the future. That’s something I don’t think we need to be concerned about right now.

I’d rather capitalize on the FlexJS name.

Harbs

> On Sep 13, 2017, at 1:41 PM, Piotr Zarzycki <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I thought that name things was one of the concerns in the thread from
> board.

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